NARUTO FIGHTERS: Kiseki vs Samiya

JigokunoTenshi

Mythical
Good morning.



I’ll keep it short and to the point, as I really did not want to be here filing a dispute. Samiya in my last post was dead, as there were two genjutsus that he did not disrupt. Ant and I spoke of it in DMs and could not come to an agreement, so the next course of action was to wait for him to post and file the dispute after.



The conversation in DMS goes as follows:



Ant messaged me asking me the current situation of my post, to which I told him, and even revealed the double genjutsu. Considering the questions asked and reactions, one would assume he did not know it was a genjutsu prior to me telling him.



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While it is true and I should have stated I didn’t disagree with it, her birds are outsiders to the events that transpired between Kiseki and Samiya, she also stated in her first post that they were placed in locations to watch Kiseki who at the time was upon a roof. At this point given how events have played out- me telling her it is genjutsu and posting the execution post, it looks like metagaming. Are the birds within reason to act? Not really, and here’s why:



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To be able to blend in, when it had been stated in the following posts that both Kiseki and Ryojin were able to spot them out because they are not in their natural habitat, they’d have had to at least been at a decent distance, or it’d have been within my right to claim that I saw more than just the one. Kiseki is a bird watcher and bird lover, and I stated in my first post that she was watching the birds in the time it took for her opponent to arrive. Ant gave me permission to use information about Kiseki from her NARUTO bio, since her bio on the wiki was never updated fully.

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For this reason, location never being specified and no mention of these summons being in her second post at all, I don’t believe that they’d have been able to intervene with Samiya in a genjutsu. How did they know?



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Ant never specified that they would be able to see Samiya as well, only Kiseki, who was on the roof of a building at the beginning when they perched, not specifying how far away they were so I believed it was at least one or two streets over to avoid detection since they were supposedly out of sight. Samiya is between buildings in the middle of a large city. Even stated at the end of the recent post that they were hidden.



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How would they have seen this, known it was genjutsu, and come in to reverse summon Samiya (and how did they reverse summon Samiya), when from the outside looking in (and it’s been stated that this happened within seconds) Kiseki threw a pipe and it flew past Samiya’s head, and Samiya stopped walking. Kiseki moves at the speed of sound, I stated that- there was one pause between the pipe leaving her hand that took one second within the building, and then she continued on with no stops. Kiseki left immediately after she threw the pipe, which was making sound, and moves at the speed of sound herself. This is all happening at incredible speeds.



Let me lay it out better so you can see the picture better since this might have been all over the place.



Kiseki threw the pipe, and immediately after it left her hand she left into the building. By the time the pipe initiated Genjutsu Samiya stopped walking, Kiseki would have stopped to make her clone and sword and let the clone take it. Pipe hit the ground. Kiseki followed her clone and as the clone came out of the building at the speed of the sound of breaking glass Hidden Mist was summoned. Kiseki came in behind Samiya right after to kill her with the clone and her sword. I stated that it took less than a second for the sword to cleave through her head, and Samiya was reverse summoned... right before the sword touched her face, leaving Kiseki at the mercy of her own blade?



How does that make sense? Her bird came in and reverse summoned her that fast? I hope I’m explaining myself well. Not only that but I stated she intentionally missed by a mere inch, so really it just looked like Samiya stopped walking to avoid walking into it, rather than deflect it and expose that she’s armed. And she only stopped walking for just a moment, due to how fast events are unfolding. How can the birds know it’s a genjutsu if they could see? Did they hear the sound? Then they would be in a genjutsu as well. Are we supposed to believe that bird summons with amazing hearing didn’t hear it?



To summon them in the first post and not mention them at all in the second and make sure they have a clear stated vantage point after their initial subject of observation moved, just appears that they were brought in as a means to use them once Ant had ooc information and say that it was the birds themselves taking action since they’re outside entities. But there isn’t enough detail to even justify their interruption.
 

Tsukuyomi

Chunin
Unfortunately, there's yet another Dispute to be responded to, and it sadly includes me. I'll try and respond to all her points in a short and easy fashion so you guys don't have too much to do much outside digging.

To her first point of me not knowing it was a genjutsu before speaking to her, that one at least from her perspective I can't say is wrong, I spoke to her because I was on mobile and the post was confusing me, so I thought why not just go to the source. Regardless of whether or not she told me tho, I would have seen that it was a genjutsu, she states so in the post. The fact that I spoke to her to begin with was just my way of reaching out to ensure I got her post clearly and for whatever reason, she was against any reaction to the post. For her next point, she states the birds should not have seen Samiya to begin with. Now, this just makes no sense, because for one they are her summons of course they'd keep an eye out for her if they're watching her battle. Not to mention if they were only watching Kiseki as I said in my post they would have also been watching Samiya because at the time Kiseki was right next to her anyways. If the birds were keeping an eye on Kiseki, they'd be watching the battle as a whole, albeit from the outside, but luckily to perform a reverse summoning jutsu you don't even need to see the summoner to cast it, so them being "an outsider" or far away doesn't exactly track as a solid point for this argument. She also questions how they would know it's a genjutsu. In her post she claims Samiya was standing paralyzed in the middle of the street, what else would they suspect besides a genjutsu? Who's summoner just stands in the street paralyzed and unable to move or fight back against a sword in their face willingly? They would have instantly taken action, regardless of what was going on, Samiya was in the face of death, whose summoning wouldn't do something?

For reference:
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She mentions that they wouldn't have been fast enough to stop her from being killed, however, they were watching the fight the entire time, watching Kiseki's movements at that. The reverse summoning technique is instantaneous, it's not farfetched to believe they were able to summon her that fast, especially with the fact they would have been in a rush to save her life to begin with, they certainly would have made haste in summoning her. Also, I'd like to add, Kiseki herself still has yet to see all of the birds as is, she's only seen one as she herself mentioned in her post, I told the three of them to stay around her, so the argument that they were two far from her would make no sense. I had no need to address them in my second post because they were already where they needed to be, watching the fight go down. I never stated that they would stay far away from the fight at all, the fact that she noticed one as is means they were in some sort of close proximity to Samiya and Kiseki.

For reference of her only noticing one bird and in close proximity at that:
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Now for my own set of points. My main thing is, how was Kiseki able to layer genjutsu, to begin with? She has an 11 in genjutsu per her wiki-bio and is an 8-year-old girl, regardless of age that mastery alone should stop her from layering any sort of genjutsu. Not to mention, she used them in such obscure ways as through a broken pipe and mist, two things she at her level should never be able to do. Not only that but Kiseki has not one single genjutsu listed on either her wiki or imvu bio (Which I allowed her to use in this fight since she asked if she could, hense why she linked it above). Not just that, but from what she's saying, Kiseki layered two genjutsu almost instantaneously then a hidden mist jutsu, summoned a sword and a clone in such a short period of time. For a genin of her mastery, it should take her much longer to cast even simple genjutsu, let alone layer two to get over on someone who has a 50 mastery in the technique. So the fact that she even had Samiya trapped in a genjutsu, to begin with, raises questions. To add onto that, Kiseki only has a 13 in ninjutsu and a 1 in hand seals, realistically her hand seals can't even match up with her speed, she'd take much longer to weave them and use ninjutsu such as the hidden mist technique because her stats are so low, so almost all her actions up until now don't really even make sense for her character.

Her page for reference: "Kiseki Isogi"
You can also look at this page to see the norms for someone of her skill set regarding my last few points. "
Hand Signs"

Hand Signs states that someone of level 1 proficiency "You know a few hand signs and the ones you know you sometimes forget." So this comes to question how Kiseki is weaving seals at the speed of sound since that's how fast she's claiming to move and spit out Jutsu.

As far as I've read, that's all she wrote to respond to and I've made most if not all of the points I had to make. Again, sorry to have to throw another dispute your way, but I guess it's inevitable.
 

Fox

Mythical
Final Verdict

In the case of Samiya Vs Kiseki, the blue team has taken much deliberation over the issue and finally come to a sound verdict on the matter at hand. The blue team rules in favor of Kiseki's defense on the dispute case for the following reasons:

The entirety of this case relies on essentially the matter of one simple question. "Is Samiya still subjected to the Genjutsu?" For this reason, the results of this battle would be in favor of Kiseki. There are many issues that play a factor into this - one of which being the matter of Kiseki's stats being too low to initiate a layered genjutsu. But subtracting that from the matter it still stands that the first initial genjutsu would be the main problem. There are a few things about this to consider - and simplifying the matter makes it more consistent.

1. Was the trigger for the genjutsu acknowledged? Yes. This would initiate the genjutsu regardless.

2. With that being initiated, it was never stated that the birds were monitoring Samiya's physical state or mental in any way. The most that could be gained from this would be physically having a line of sight on the target. Which, in the case of genjutsu would not visibly indicate any irregularity that would prompt need of swift action. Acknowledging this helps understand why anything else from this point would start to cross into the space of conjecture as to if there may be a slight issue with metagaming. However in the case that even if the birds were there to acknowledge the tell and issue at hand - that would make them as well in the range to be subject to the trigger that initiated the genjutsu - which could potentially leave them in a genjutsu as well.

3. From the point that the genjutsu was initiated and the point that it would have ended - there was a space between that would have allowed for the acknowledgment and breaking of the genjutsu. This was not done in that time and with that being the case, unfortunately, the genjutsu's plan would come to fruition.



That being said. To reiterate what was said before the Blue team as it stands currently rules that the Genjutsu does indeed land and the state of combat should persist from a perspective acknowledging that course of action. We wish to thank the parties involved for their patience in the deliberation of the matter and as well apologize for the time it took. Our mods are hard at work balancing and considering all of the factors involved to ensure we provide the verdict with the most consideration and fairness. If there is any dissatisfaction with the verdict thus far - we urge you to be respectful to the mod team and keep your appeals to a maximum of two per case. Any attempted appeals, malicious expressions of dissatisfaction with the verdict and/or mod team and mods involved - or any further related matters; will be reviewed for and potential actionable offense. So please - do take consideration and patience with the matter as will we with everyone dealing with the matter of dispute cases.

Please and thank you.
 
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